I listened to the podcast this morning, though I will confess to stopping early on to research his Devil ceramics. In a strange way, his designs put me in the mind of Dante or Dr. Faustus. So, I have experienced a similar reaction from people, who having learned of my son, will share their stories with me. I cannot imagine losing two sons like he has. My loss combined with my Parkinson's diagnosis around the same time pushed me outward while it turned my wife inward - not a great combination. His comments about the connection between religion and creativity reminded me of this short reflection on the Imagination of God by Sam Wells, the vicar at St. Martin in the Fields. I first encountered Wells years ago when he was Dean of the Duke University Chapel in North Carolina. He brings an originality and creativity to his sermons - a rare talent. I have followed his career since then. https://youtu.be/cppIdd5n1hA
I always confuse the voice of Nick Cave with Tom Waits. I knew (somehow) that Nick had lost a son but know none of the details. Thanks for the link. I will listen and let you know. On a different not and in response to one of your other posts, I have read Unfaithful Music by Elvis Costello. He's an excellent writer and it is a good read if you haven't. I recently traded a badly written Merle Haggard biography with one of my several musician nephews for his copy of Kill Your Friends by John Niven. That was an interesting book.
Nick Cave had twin boys and one of them died about 8-9 years ago by falling down a cliff near their home on the south coast of England when he and some friends were tripping on acid. And another of his older sons dies more recently.
Skeleton Tree which was the album released after his 15 year old dies is one of the most beautiful and haunting albums I know. Cave said that much of it was written before the death but the whole thing is suffused with a kind of mourning. Exceptional. Thanks for the other book references - I tend to avoid reading books written about or by musicians I like as, barring Dylan\s Chronicles they add little and can detract from my enjoyment of their work. The artist and the art are maybe best kept apart...discuss
I agree that art and artist are best kept apart. If I couldn't separate the two just think of all of the good people who make bad art that I would have to alienate. Ha! But seriously, an artist's work should judged for it own worth. Take Ezra Pound who wrote the poem that I posted on Good Friday. He went from being a mentor of T. S. Eliot to making pro-fascists broadcasts for the Italians during WW2. He was tried for treason, acquitted then spent a dozen years in a psychiatric hospital during which time he received a major poetry award from the Library of Congress. I thought about not posting it because of his background but felt that I would be engaging is some form of cancel culture. One's loyalty should be to the art, not the artist.
I hated Nick Cave's pseudo documentary 20,000 Days on Earth in which I thought he came across as a self inflated git I had to totally reappraise that as I listened to the podcast
Another touching and thought provoking piece. I sometimes think about what it would be like if one of my children were to die and generally end of imagining I'd go into self destructive craziness. For you with your lineage to have achieved such a balanced place after the loss of your firstborn leave me in some degree of awe.
That said I found consolation in (what I think is) Camus' resolution of the Sisyphyean question - that one can accept life the universe and everything is random/ meaningless and just get on with it as best we can with a cheery whistle. I like the idea that we humans and our planet and our hubris are random flecks of dust in totality of what is out there. Apologies if this is totally facial - I struggle to express stuff like this clearly .
And I can't yet find a place on Substack to formally acknowledge your generous and exquisitely written recommendation - so thank you for that. In particular I enjoyed 'sly wit' - such a pretty construction.
I agree that using Substack is not intuitive. I haven't quite figured out how to navigate around the site. Maybe it is due to it being a hybrid social network/blog construct. I appreciate your response to this piece. Thank you for reading it. I don't really know how I got through the losses either but I agree with your attitude of facing life with a cheery whistle. I could say that rigorous religious faith or belief in a "good reason" for bad things to happen got me through it but that would be trite and insulting to both of our intelligences. There are no easy answers but that doesn't stop me from asking questions - with humor, of course.
Ah Tommy - it is a pleasure to be in conversation with you. More especially as you are a Republican and (I’m guessing from your post) a Christian - so important to be in touch with people with different perspectives.
Likewise on the conversation. I am thoroughly enjoying it. After spending 15 years in politics I can attest that listening to different perspectives - and I mean openly listening - is the only way to move forward. But of course that requires honesty which has almost disappeared from public discourse. An honesty that will admit that most issues have valid positions held by both sides.
Absolutely, I despair when I hear UK politicians slamming every initiative put forward by the other side claiming they have the better way. Democracy is in poor health - we boomers have lived through a unique time which gave us everything and we made the mistake of thinking it was the pattern forever. Have you read Picketty? And John Gray? Both have powerful and scary insights on where we've come from and where we'll probably go.
Do you subscribe to the London Review of Books? It is a superb journal and they have published long form reviews of Picketty - that's my source I could send you a link from LRB if you like. . His main books are Capital in the 22st Century and A brief history of inequality .John Gray I have heard talking on the Unherd podcast and he's also been on The Dishcast podcast though that's subscriber only.
Hi - Tommy I wonder if you’d heard this conversation with Nick Cave - touches intelligently and movingly on the death of his son and his relationship to Jesus and faith. https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/unherd-with-freddie-sayers/id1540134798?i=1000607900663
I listened to the podcast this morning, though I will confess to stopping early on to research his Devil ceramics. In a strange way, his designs put me in the mind of Dante or Dr. Faustus. So, I have experienced a similar reaction from people, who having learned of my son, will share their stories with me. I cannot imagine losing two sons like he has. My loss combined with my Parkinson's diagnosis around the same time pushed me outward while it turned my wife inward - not a great combination. His comments about the connection between religion and creativity reminded me of this short reflection on the Imagination of God by Sam Wells, the vicar at St. Martin in the Fields. I first encountered Wells years ago when he was Dean of the Duke University Chapel in North Carolina. He brings an originality and creativity to his sermons - a rare talent. I have followed his career since then. https://youtu.be/cppIdd5n1hA
I always confuse the voice of Nick Cave with Tom Waits. I knew (somehow) that Nick had lost a son but know none of the details. Thanks for the link. I will listen and let you know. On a different not and in response to one of your other posts, I have read Unfaithful Music by Elvis Costello. He's an excellent writer and it is a good read if you haven't. I recently traded a badly written Merle Haggard biography with one of my several musician nephews for his copy of Kill Your Friends by John Niven. That was an interesting book.
Nick Cave had twin boys and one of them died about 8-9 years ago by falling down a cliff near their home on the south coast of England when he and some friends were tripping on acid. And another of his older sons dies more recently.
Skeleton Tree which was the album released after his 15 year old dies is one of the most beautiful and haunting albums I know. Cave said that much of it was written before the death but the whole thing is suffused with a kind of mourning. Exceptional. Thanks for the other book references - I tend to avoid reading books written about or by musicians I like as, barring Dylan\s Chronicles they add little and can detract from my enjoyment of their work. The artist and the art are maybe best kept apart...discuss
I agree that art and artist are best kept apart. If I couldn't separate the two just think of all of the good people who make bad art that I would have to alienate. Ha! But seriously, an artist's work should judged for it own worth. Take Ezra Pound who wrote the poem that I posted on Good Friday. He went from being a mentor of T. S. Eliot to making pro-fascists broadcasts for the Italians during WW2. He was tried for treason, acquitted then spent a dozen years in a psychiatric hospital during which time he received a major poetry award from the Library of Congress. I thought about not posting it because of his background but felt that I would be engaging is some form of cancel culture. One's loyalty should be to the art, not the artist.
I hated Nick Cave's pseudo documentary 20,000 Days on Earth in which I thought he came across as a self inflated git I had to totally reappraise that as I listened to the podcast
Another touching and thought provoking piece. I sometimes think about what it would be like if one of my children were to die and generally end of imagining I'd go into self destructive craziness. For you with your lineage to have achieved such a balanced place after the loss of your firstborn leave me in some degree of awe.
That said I found consolation in (what I think is) Camus' resolution of the Sisyphyean question - that one can accept life the universe and everything is random/ meaningless and just get on with it as best we can with a cheery whistle. I like the idea that we humans and our planet and our hubris are random flecks of dust in totality of what is out there. Apologies if this is totally facial - I struggle to express stuff like this clearly .
And I can't yet find a place on Substack to formally acknowledge your generous and exquisitely written recommendation - so thank you for that. In particular I enjoyed 'sly wit' - such a pretty construction.
I agree that using Substack is not intuitive. I haven't quite figured out how to navigate around the site. Maybe it is due to it being a hybrid social network/blog construct. I appreciate your response to this piece. Thank you for reading it. I don't really know how I got through the losses either but I agree with your attitude of facing life with a cheery whistle. I could say that rigorous religious faith or belief in a "good reason" for bad things to happen got me through it but that would be trite and insulting to both of our intelligences. There are no easy answers but that doesn't stop me from asking questions - with humor, of course.
Ah Tommy - it is a pleasure to be in conversation with you. More especially as you are a Republican and (I’m guessing from your post) a Christian - so important to be in touch with people with different perspectives.
Likewise on the conversation. I am thoroughly enjoying it. After spending 15 years in politics I can attest that listening to different perspectives - and I mean openly listening - is the only way to move forward. But of course that requires honesty which has almost disappeared from public discourse. An honesty that will admit that most issues have valid positions held by both sides.
Absolutely, I despair when I hear UK politicians slamming every initiative put forward by the other side claiming they have the better way. Democracy is in poor health - we boomers have lived through a unique time which gave us everything and we made the mistake of thinking it was the pattern forever. Have you read Picketty? And John Gray? Both have powerful and scary insights on where we've come from and where we'll probably go.
I have not read John Gray or Thomas Piketty but I am interested if you have books or articles to recommend.
Do you subscribe to the London Review of Books? It is a superb journal and they have published long form reviews of Picketty - that's my source I could send you a link from LRB if you like. . His main books are Capital in the 22st Century and A brief history of inequality .John Gray I have heard talking on the Unherd podcast and he's also been on The Dishcast podcast though that's subscriber only.